Fisking Sam Buchanan on Burma and Bolshevik Babies
Wellington anarchist Sam Buchanan has given me a bit of a serve over my claims that the Burmese "democracy" movement is dominated by communists.
Here's a mini fisk of his comment.
Sam What a load of rubbish, Trev. There's a Socialist Worker placard on a demo in Auckland and DASSK's dad was briefly in the communist party, therefore communists are the 'backbone' of the democracy movement.
New Zeal Aung San Suu Kyi's father was the founding General Secretary of the Burmese Communist Party. Her maternal uncle was also a General Secretary of the Party. Even the Burmese authorities don't accuse DASSK of being a communist-they accuse her of being manipulated by her "former" communist advisors.
Sam Trev, Socialist Worker aren't the backbone of anything and communism isn't genetic. I know this must shake your world view a bit, but it's true. Neither does being at a meeting or something 20 years ago that a Marxist was at mean you are tainted yourself. Marxism is an idiotic ideology/theology, not a communicable disease.
New Zeal Socialist Worker are the backbone of several front groups from RAM to VAST to Climaction and the Solidarity Union. They have also played a leading role in leading the Auckland Burmese "democracy" movement.
Communism isn't genetic as notable anti-communists like David Horowitz and our own Lindsay Perigo will attest.
However the "red nappy baby" is a very real phenomonon. NZ's own Locke, Bradford, Alley, Beaglehole, Harre, Gale, Oosterman, Mountier, Brock, Marston, Shadbolt and Bollinger families have all produced two to three generations of left activists for example.
Its a bit like the mafia-if you're family's in it, you're more likely to be in it.
To paraphrase Tony Soprano-"my father was in it (the mob), my uncle was in it-what choice did I have?
Sam As for the Burmese, the Burmese Communist party is insignificant these days after China switched to backing the military regime. I spent a bit of time with part of the Burmese democracy movement (regt. 3 of the All Burma Student's Democratic Front) and there was one ex-BCP guy in the camp - respected as a long term activist, but his Marxism was considered ridiculous (people made Stalin jokes) and irrelevent.
New Zeal The BCP is still a force in Burma as are many leftist and Maoist student groups. As you would know Sam, some of these are aligned to the Asian Student's Association which is in turn aligned to various Maoist parties in India, Nepal and the Philippines.
I believe China has been playing this game for years. That is forging ties with the governments of India, Nepal, the Philippines and Burma, while secretly backing Maoist insurgencies against those same governments.
Even in NZ, the Chinese used to back the local Maoists in the Workers Communist League, Organisation for Marxist Unity etc, while professing undying friendship for our government of the day.
It's called being duplicitous Sam and the Chinese are very good at it.
Here's a mini fisk of his comment.
Sam What a load of rubbish, Trev. There's a Socialist Worker placard on a demo in Auckland and DASSK's dad was briefly in the communist party, therefore communists are the 'backbone' of the democracy movement.
New Zeal Aung San Suu Kyi's father was the founding General Secretary of the Burmese Communist Party. Her maternal uncle was also a General Secretary of the Party. Even the Burmese authorities don't accuse DASSK of being a communist-they accuse her of being manipulated by her "former" communist advisors.
Sam Trev, Socialist Worker aren't the backbone of anything and communism isn't genetic. I know this must shake your world view a bit, but it's true. Neither does being at a meeting or something 20 years ago that a Marxist was at mean you are tainted yourself. Marxism is an idiotic ideology/theology, not a communicable disease.
New Zeal Socialist Worker are the backbone of several front groups from RAM to VAST to Climaction and the Solidarity Union. They have also played a leading role in leading the Auckland Burmese "democracy" movement.
Communism isn't genetic as notable anti-communists like David Horowitz and our own Lindsay Perigo will attest.
However the "red nappy baby" is a very real phenomonon. NZ's own Locke, Bradford, Alley, Beaglehole, Harre, Gale, Oosterman, Mountier, Brock, Marston, Shadbolt and Bollinger families have all produced two to three generations of left activists for example.
Its a bit like the mafia-if you're family's in it, you're more likely to be in it.
To paraphrase Tony Soprano-"my father was in it (the mob), my uncle was in it-what choice did I have?
Sam As for the Burmese, the Burmese Communist party is insignificant these days after China switched to backing the military regime. I spent a bit of time with part of the Burmese democracy movement (regt. 3 of the All Burma Student's Democratic Front) and there was one ex-BCP guy in the camp - respected as a long term activist, but his Marxism was considered ridiculous (people made Stalin jokes) and irrelevent.
New Zeal The BCP is still a force in Burma as are many leftist and Maoist student groups. As you would know Sam, some of these are aligned to the Asian Student's Association which is in turn aligned to various Maoist parties in India, Nepal and the Philippines.
I believe China has been playing this game for years. That is forging ties with the governments of India, Nepal, the Philippines and Burma, while secretly backing Maoist insurgencies against those same governments.
Even in NZ, the Chinese used to back the local Maoists in the Workers Communist League, Organisation for Marxist Unity etc, while professing undying friendship for our government of the day.
It's called being duplicitous Sam and the Chinese are very good at it.
posted by Trevor Loudon at
10/01/2007 09:14:00 PM
5 Comments:
Daft. Somebody's dad was briefly in the Communist Party in the 1930s(he quit and formed a rival party not long after and was soon shot - he's seen as a hero in Burma for his anti-colonial activites, not his particular politics) and there's leftist groups in Burma and the struggling remains of a once strong Communist Party therefore "Marxist-Leninist forces... are... the backbone of the misleadingly named "democracy" movement."
By the same argument, since the democracy forces in Burma receive funding from foreign exchange speculator George Soros, DASSK is praised by western governments and the ABSDF fund their activities by small business activities (charcoal burning, goat herding, clothing manufacture, etc.) they are clearly controlled by the International Capitalist Conspiracy. Come to think of it, that's much the same argument the Burmese regime uses.
- Sam Buchanan
Can't make sense of what you're trying to say in the last paragraph Sam, but I do know that Soros is renowned for supporting far left causes.
What I'm saying is that the type of evidence that Trev uses to 'prove' communists are behind the Burmese democracy movement, can also be found to prove that capitalists are behind it. In reality, the evidence for either view is weak in the extreme.
Didn't know Soros supported the far left - good on him! What particular causes are you talking about - his support for civil society groups in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet bloc and the like?
- Sam Buchanan
Hey, if Perigo had commo parents and isn't one, how come DASSK having a dad who was briefly in the Communist party is evidence that communists run the Burmese democracy movement, huh?
By the way, unlike the other 'red nappy babies' you cite, Aung San had left the communist party before Aung San Suu Kyi was born, and in any case, he was assasinated when she was two years old, so probably wasn't much of a political influence.
- Sam
Any nationalist government these days is the target of 'democracy movements' as global elites and their Trotskyist shock troops cement their long-awaited 'new world order' together. It's quite a revelation to know that the US Neoconservatives came out of Trotskyism and fascism, hence their belligerent Project for a New American Century to basically conquer the world.
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