tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post1516287150064753724..comments2023-11-06T00:01:30.085+13:00Comments on New Zeal: The Politics of IntimidationTrevor Loudonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17040453691836232676noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-75275567820652073452008-03-12T15:41:00.000+13:002008-03-12T15:41:00.000+13:00Yes, Stalin and Hitler were very similar (and Mao ...Yes, Stalin and Hitler were very similar (and Mao etc). But how do any of us benefit from this willy-waving contest over whether they were 'left' or 'right'? We all agree they and their regimes were monstrous, right? So we actually do agree on something. Great. And we agree that our own ideals are the opposite of theirs, right? So what is the substance of these ideals?<BR/> <BR/>Let's take freedom of speech as an example. There is a great piece in the documentary 'Manufacturing Consent' where Chomsky basically says if you support freedom of speech, you support it for precisely those views you disagree with. In find neo-nazi views ignorant and pathetic but I defend a person's right to hold and express them (at least until they get a political and economic education and develop views that have some relationship to reality).<BR/><BR/>Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc punished people for holding and expressing views that opposed their ideology. Any opponent of those ideologies should therefore defend freedom of speech, regardless of whether we consider ourselves 'left' or 'right', right? That's why Indymedia will never censor views for being 'right-wing'. Abusive - yes, commercial - for sure. But 'right-wing' posters, although they can expect to cop some flack from other users, are as free to post on Indymedia as anyone else.<BR/><BR/>Stalin, Hitler etc also used violence and intimidation to force people to co-operate with their political vision. So the opposite of this is using open discussion and debate to find consensus around a shared vision, right? This is impossible when people tie themselves to irresolvable and futile arguments between the flawless perfection of 'left' or 'right'. But when we untangle ourselves from the prison of our own ideology and start talking nuts and bolts, it can be surprising how much we actually agree on.<BR/><BR/>Danyl Strype<BR/><BR/>BTW Trevor, thanks for syndicating so many of the quality stories from Indymedia. Also, thanks for assembling your histories of left-wing activists in Aotearoa, despite your disparaging tone, the data you gather will help future historians ensure these people receive due credit for both the successes and mistakes in their political work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-21544283647478737372008-01-11T13:58:00.000+13:002008-01-11T13:58:00.000+13:00the point was he saw that the CIA do and couldn't ...the point was he saw that the CIA do and couldn't continue because it was immoral. reminds me of the book 'confessions of an economic hitman'.<BR/><BR/>stalin and hitler were the same, authoritarian meglomaniancs - like mussolini.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-6362394700191289002008-01-11T10:06:00.000+13:002008-01-11T10:06:00.000+13:00In reply to the post about CIA defector Agee.For a...In reply to the post about CIA defector Agee.<BR/><BR/>For a balanced view read the 10 January obituary in the UK Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk go news then select obituaries.<BR/><BR/>Agee caused the death of British as well as American agents. He was fired because of his alcoholism and womanising.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-80116603382833510012008-01-11T09:54:00.000+13:002008-01-11T09:54:00.000+13:00Am I the only one in the blogosphere who notices t...Am I the only one in the blogosphere who notices that those who tend to support the EFA and its requirements to name people for their views etc, also tend to be those who post anonymously on others blogs?deletedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03002415274366842312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-86338662250876811122008-01-10T22:30:00.000+13:002008-01-10T22:30:00.000+13:00James and the last 3 anons.Thanks very much.James and the last 3 anons.<BR/><BR/>Thanks very much.Trevor Loudonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040453691836232676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-35695922187821313502008-01-10T22:09:00.000+13:002008-01-10T22:09:00.000+13:00I don't share all of your views Mr. Loudon, but I ...I don't share all of your views Mr. Loudon, but I admire your courage.<BR/><BR/>Thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing to light just how deeply the far left extremists have infiltrated the Green Party.<BR/><BR/>And for your work about the Chinese Communists and Maori youth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-32222915367881846552008-01-10T22:01:00.000+13:002008-01-10T22:01:00.000+13:00Attempts to muzzle you Trev are absolutely appalli...Attempts to muzzle you Trev are absolutely appalling.<BR/><BR/>I believe most people on the left are honourable, but the far left harbours some absolutely revolting nasties. <BR/><BR/>The best way to neutralise such hostile bacteria is to expose them to the light!<BR/><BR/>Well done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-29409824551169601222008-01-10T21:39:00.000+13:002008-01-10T21:39:00.000+13:00Oliver Woods should not be so certain about the Le...Oliver Woods should not be so certain about the Left-Right line.<BR/>He is talking AgitProp.<BR/><BR/>The Nazis were National SOCIALISTS. That's what they called themselves. Heaps of them were ex communists.<BR/><BR/>In East Germany under the Leftists, the Stasi terror arose. It was an easy transition from Nazi-ism. In West Germany under the moderate Right, the country moved into democracy.<BR/><BR/>Many top historians have noted the close parallels between Hitler and Stalin (one wrote a book about it with "Parallel Lives" in the title).<BR/><BR/>When the hard-left communist generals tried to revolt in post-Soviet Russia against the early move towards democracy, the trendy-lefty Reuters news agency led the way with the BBC by branding these pro-Stalinists "right wing", which was ludicrous.<BR/>They wanted to confuse people. This was AgitProp similar to Woods'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-66082010617875790182008-01-10T19:23:00.000+13:002008-01-10T19:23:00.000+13:00The Nazis were outspoken opponents of capitalism a...The Nazis were outspoken opponents of capitalism and reason....everything about them was taken and adapted from the Left.....the red falg behind the Swastike,their collectivism,their anti freedom stances on everything...sorry Oliver but you are a liar and a distorter of history....its was the rest of the Left that tried to shun the Nazis as Right wing....most likely out of a earned sense of shame...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-32688884989457428592008-01-10T18:17:00.000+13:002008-01-10T18:17:00.000+13:00Philip Agee, a former CIA agent who became a bitte...Philip Agee, a former CIA agent who became a bitter critic of Washington's Cuba policy, has died aged 72, Cuban state media reported today.<BR/><BR/>Agee quit the CIA in 1969 after 12 years in which he mainly worked in Latin America. He was later denounced as a traitor by George Bush Sr and was threatened with death by his former colleagues.<BR/><BR/>His famous 1975 book, Inside the Company: CIA Diary, cited alleged CIA misdeeds against leftwingers in the region and included a 22-page list of people he claimed were agency operatives. <BR/><BR/><BR/>no chance there some stories this man had about the rightwing...<BR/>thats right trev - the left is the only violent side....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-71489791552613468912008-01-10T17:09:00.000+13:002008-01-10T17:09:00.000+13:00What a bloody ridiculous and childish post. I'd im...What a bloody ridiculous and childish post. I'd imagine something of this analysis coming from an over-eager 15 year old who's read Ayn Rand one too many times.<BR/><BR/>'The Left' is no more predisposed to violence than 'The Right'. That's a matter for the public record.<BR/><BR/>Who remembers a blogsite that published the names and addresses of left-wing bloggers?<BR/><BR/>And Trevor, please familiarise yourself with the real world. Nazis are universally considered to be right-wingers, just like Italian Fascism. No matter whether Ludwivg von Mises or Johnny Ultimate has told you so, Trevor, this is the virtually universal academic consensus. Only a handful of non-historian libertarian intellectuals challenge this consensus.Oliver Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13446087023496124734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-10620655259097744402008-01-10T14:26:00.000+13:002008-01-10T14:26:00.000+13:00wouldn't this person have had to register their na...wouldn't this person have had to register their name and address under the old electoral law as well?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-58686552825877160592008-01-10T07:32:00.000+13:002008-01-10T07:32:00.000+13:00anon 1-I regard National Front types as left winge...anon 1-I regard National Front types as left wingers-as were the Nazis and the Italian fascists.<BR/><BR/>You're right about the pete Lusk incident. I had forgotten that, though I blogged about it at the time.Trevor Loudonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040453691836232676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-75722367900626441872008-01-10T06:01:00.000+13:002008-01-10T06:01:00.000+13:00other examples: running down of unionist at dock d...other examples: running down of unionist at dock dispute<BR/><BR/>violence used against striking miners in nz<BR/><BR/>invasion of Tuhoe lands<BR/><BR/>invasion of parihaka<BR/><BR/>a different picture comes out trev when you look at the larger context. another good example is the bombing of the rainbow warrior and the attack on a greenpeace boat by french commandos.<BR/><BR/>as you can see there has been multiple righwing acts of intimidation not to mention CIA activities, the murder of unionists in colombia and the tasering of a protestor at a john kerry speech (video is on youtube)<BR/><BR/>another new zealand example is when simon oosterman got pepper sprayed at a GE free direct action protest.<BR/><BR/>sorry to shoot down your mythAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-81157154845514688892008-01-09T22:17:00.000+13:002008-01-09T22:17:00.000+13:00The left have always relied upon intimidation. Pol...The left have always relied upon intimidation. Political correctness is one facet. Bolshevik style thuggery is another. A totalitarian state is their aim. <BR/><BR/>That said, their success in this country is down to one thing more than most- the willingness of everybody else to succumb. Why is it that so many NZers appear to be so unwilling to confront the left in the manner they should be confonted? Why do the lie down and allow the left to walk all over them? Resistance to socialism/ leftism in NZ just seems so damn lame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-48215736395751492212008-01-09T20:43:00.000+13:002008-01-09T20:43:00.000+13:00Anon-You have no proof whatever for that assertion...Anon-You have no proof whatever for that assertion.<BR/><BR/>While there are the odd ratbag on all sides, political thuggery comes overwhelmingly from the left.<BR/><BR/>If you have no arguement-intimidate.<BR/><BR/>Rick-thanks for that-have just emailed you.Trevor Loudonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040453691836232676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-53944361130892388642008-01-09T19:56:00.000+13:002008-01-09T19:56:00.000+13:00Andy Moore. We facebooked each other last yea...Andy Moore. We facebooked each other last year and were debating Christianity and Christmas a few weeks ago. And now he's gone national!<BR/> I've given him my support, I imagine he has now or soon will have a fair weight on his you ng shoulders. <BR/><BR/>Likewise, whatever poor support I can offer to you, Trev, is at your service.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06315796390662297759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-20034794402438228882008-01-09T19:55:00.000+13:002008-01-09T19:55:00.000+13:00funny that you just accuse the left of intimidatio...funny that you just accuse the left of intimidation. when helen clark's office window got smashed by an anti EFA person (most likely rightwing).<BR/><BR/>just pointing out the inconsistency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-76308694992449521542008-01-09T19:34:00.000+13:002008-01-09T19:34:00.000+13:00Thanks for proving my point Mr Y.Thanks for proving my point Mr Y.Trevor Loudonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17040453691836232676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18947592.post-41943861242105266662008-01-09T19:21:00.000+13:002008-01-09T19:21:00.000+13:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com