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Saturday, December 01, 2007

Green Party Eco-Terrorist Apologist Sprung?

I recently posted on the extensive links between the Green Party, the "Urewera 17" and the Save Happy Valley Coalition.

The Greens have strongly supported the Save Happy Valley Coalition, five leading supporters of which were arrested in the October 15th police raids.

The Greens will be decimated in the polls if these terror ties become public knowlege.

One prominent Green and longterm SHVC activist, 2005 Waimakiriri Green candidate, Alan Liefting has taken me to task over my claims;


Trevor, your analysis is way off the mark. You are trying to discredit individuals and organisations because of indirect links or links because they believe in the objective. The Green Party support the aims of SHVC because both organisations want to work to improve the environment. The Green Party support the aims of SHVC but that does not mean that they agree with all of the methods used.

Your completely wrong to state that "the backbone of the organisation is anarchist." Yes, there are anarchists who support the campaign but that does not mean the campaign is run by anarchists. SHVC is an extremely democratic and open organisation with no hierarchy which makes it difficult for a cabal to wrest power from the group as a whole. Support for SHVC comes from a wide demographic including Forest and Bird members, students, miners, academics, foreign tourists and "ordinary" people.


Now Alan is understandably trying to distance the Greens from the SHVC radicals and especially from the five arrested for their armed frolics in the Ureweras.

However Alan's claim that SHVC is not run by anarchists does not wash.

All five SHVCers arrested on October 15th are anarchists, four of them closely associated with the Wildcat Anarchist Collective based at 128 Abel Smith Street Wellington.

The Wellington SHVC is completely dominated by Wildcat supporters. The Auckland branch is mainly anarchist, while the Christchurch branch is largely a mixture of anarchists and Greens.

Anarchist play the leading role in training other activists.

Alan should really know all this as he's had a bit to do with anarchists himself.

According to his Green Party bio Alan spent some of 2002 doing volunteer work for Christchurch's Molten Media Trust.

Here's a bit about Molten Media from The State Adversary 25, Summer 1996

ANARCHIST ACTIVITY is increasing in Christchurch again after a period of not a lot happening... A new Anarcha-Feminist group is meeting regularly and a feminist street theatre group is being formed. For details phone Gaye on (03) 3749171...Molten Media, a community printing collective, is soon to be involved in training unemployed people in desktop publishing and printing skills, at the same time hoping to be providing cheap publishing to community groups.

In 2005 Molten Media worked with Wellington's Wildcat Anarchist Collective to produce the anarchist 'zine SNAP.

So, if Alan volunteered for an anarchist run organisation, does that mean he might have some anarchist tendencies himself?

SHVC breaks the law on a regular basis and has cost Solid Energy an estimated $20 million dollars.

They are at least Eco-terrorists and if the police are correct, several of them were training to become real gun toting terrorists.

So come on Alan-do the right thing.

Have a wee word to Mr Plod. I'm sure you could tell them one or two interesting things.

Who knows, you might even save a life or two.

18 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

trev no-one has been charged as terrorists as you know.

no lives have been threatened, the happy valley campaign supports non violent direct action.


have you ever been involved in an environmental campaign?

7:06 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

I was on the Rangiora High School Environment Committee in 1974.

Does that count?

8:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really, Trev! The "I'll just spout some half-baked theories and tell other people it's up to them to correct my mistakes" routine is getting a tad dull, don't you think?

Cheers

Sam Buchanan

6:07 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Methinks you're just stirring Sam.

BTW, why are you in the Deerstalkers Assn? Sounds a little out of character for a pro animal rights anarchist?

Genuinely interested.

10:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Access to firearms and bush survival skills Trev?

EXOCET

8:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not stirring Trev, if you stop publishing complete nonsense and I'll stop calling you on it.

Such as where on earth did you get the idea I'm "pro-animal rights"? When have I ever stated support for animal rights, huh? Or is this just another 'fact' you've discovered by dredging through the recesses of your imagination?

I suppose you could claim it's technically true, in that I don't believe in inflicting unnecessary suffering or cramming animals into battery cages, though that's normally referred to as an animal 'welfarist', as opposed to 'rights' position. Which is one of the reasons I'm in the Deerstaker's association - I go hunting occasionally as I think it's a lot more humane getting meat that way than buying it from a supermarket.

It's also about personal responsibility and demonstrating one's independence and all that kind of stuff I'm sure you'd appreciate.

-Sam Buchanan

10:44 AM  
Anonymous Just said...

Yes Mr Loudone, I too have beed driven by my Libertarian pollatics to keep a close scrutany on this dangeros bunch of Anarchists.

I aplaud your canny way of sniffing out these dissenters, we don't hav room in a well ordered society for such extremists - I imagine under a big Act government (lead by yourself Mr Loudone presumbaby) this affair would of been stamped out quick - smart, just like the last decent honest government under Muldoon.

I'd like to ask Sam Buchannan where he gets the funding from to run around hunting in the bush which belongs to good honest new Zelanders like Trever Loudone and myself - is he on the dole, or recieving funding from the red squad eh?

And Mr Alan Liefting, you seem like just the kind of comfused idiot who would be on your high-school enviromenta commitee.

I sinserly hope that Mr Loudone is successful in using his exspurt nollege of the way these people operate to get more votes for Act during the up and coming election, your smart mate, don't worry, we'll win mate, we'll win!

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Jonah said...

Hi Trev, (do you mind if I call you Trev?)

My name is Jonah, you've written about me in your blog somewhere....and .....yes, I'm an Anarchist sympathiser.
I'm also involved in Save Happy Valley, and have good friends who were arrested in recent firearms raids by the police.
I'm EVEN sympathetic to Tino Rangatiratanga and the efforts of Tuhoe to retain their autonomy.

Sorry Alan, I probably won't be voting Green this election - as I agree with the Anarchist perspective that voting is a misuse of energy, and we're not exactly spoiled for choice this time round. But if I was going to vote, I'd vote for you!.....anyway, all this is taking up valuable space on Trev's blog.

My main curiosity is Trev, seeing as how you know so much about Anarchists and the Save Happy Valley coalition, how come you don't like us yet? (everyone else who gets to known us does)

You can't hold out forever you know!
Peace and love to you brother,
Jonah

7:22 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Sam-just drawing you out Sam. I've never seen you express such opinions, but a lot of your mates, like Mark E for instance are hard out animal "welfarist" activists.

So I wondered how your hunting would sit with them?

Some of them have made a bit of a nuisance of themselves in duck shooting season.

I'm glad you're a hunter. As an ex (small game) hunter myself, I have respect for people who get out in the bush and pit their skills against wild animals.

Not so keen though on some of your buddies who were (allegedly) running around the bush with pistols and other non hunting type weaponry.

You're a decent bloke Sam-how do you justify that kind of shit?

8:04 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Jonah-if I knew who you were, I probably would like you.

I tend to like people who stand up for what they believe in even if I strongly disagree.

I don't personalise my politics-not much anyway.

You think you're doing the right thing, but what you're doing, carried to its logical conclusion, will in my opinion limit my freedom and destroy my ideals.

Therefore I will oppose and expose what you're doing at every opportunity.

That's the guts of it really Jonah.

Why don't you tell me who you are and I can give you a big hug next time I see you.

8:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Sam-just drawing you out Sam. I've never seen you express such opinions, but a lot of your mates, like Mark E for instance are hard out animal "welfarist" activists."

So you are admitting that you had no evidence that I was pro-animal rights but just decided to say so anyway to see what my reaction would be?

That explains a lot. Presumably a bunch of the other 'facts' on your website about leftists follow a similar pattern - "I'll just publish some claptrap and see what happens". Fairly unethical behaviour, posting erroneous information about individuals in a public forum, but maybe ethics aren't your strong point.

Shouldn't you at least have a disclaimer - "This website contains things I've made up, don't take it very seriously" - or something?

Cheers

Sam Buchanan

10:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, when you call SHVC 'eco-terrorists', who are they supposed to have terrorised? I can imagine they've annoyed people , but 'terrorised'? Perhaps Solid Energy bosses are particularly fragile and easily frightened, but it sounds to me that you are just indulging in hyperbole.

-Sam

10:14 AM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Not quite right Sam-I had (obviously wrongly) assumed, that you, like most of your anarchist friends would be anti-hunting.

I was surprised therefore to learn of the apparent contradiction.

It goes back to a suspicion of mine that many anarchists don't actually believe in the things they say they do.

I think many anarchist animal rights types actually care stuff all about animals, but simply use the issue to agitate against "capitalism".

Just like several of your close "peace activist" friends were allegedly running around the hills with pistols and automatic rifles.

Answer me Sam-how do you justify that shit?

I'm betting you can't, that's why you're so evasive on the subject.

10:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's just it, Trev, most of us don't go ahead and publish things about individuals on the basis of an assumption.

If I want to know what somebody thinks, I go and ask them, or refer to their writings or whatever. I would expect that you, who purports to have a strong belief in the rights of the individual, would do the same, but obviously not.

Many of your assertions seem to be made on the basis that if one person thinks something, then their friends and associates will also think that. As I've pointed out, this shows a deep streak of collectivism in your thinking, and you need to sort that out.

For example, you now assert that most of my 'anarchist friends' are anti-hunting. In fact, you don't know who my friends are or what they think - all you are doing is assuming that because a few anarchists are clearly anti-hunting, all the others must be, then you further assume my particular friends are also anti-hunting.

Now you recently admitted to knowing a Green Party supporter quite well, Suppose I decided to publish things about you on the grounds that you associate with green party supporters, therefore, you are probably one as well. That would be absurd, and I'd deserve to be pilloried for it, but you don't seem to accept that this applies to your own assertions.

The world doesn't work like that, Trev. The time of monolithic ideologies is over, thank god. I think you've spent too much time around Marxists.

Trev, to the best of my knowledge, the only friends of mine who have run around the hills with automatic weapons were in the NZ Army at the time. If the current allegations prove to be more than police and media hype, I'll be happy to comment.

Cheers

Sam

12:12 PM  
Anonymous Alan Liefting said...

Trevor, this posting is far worse than you first one on this issue. Come on, be a bit more thorough with your research.

Molten Media Trust in Chch, which is a trust that recycles computers has nothing to do with 176 Molten Media that appears to be an activist group in Wellington. The old info you dragged up from 1996 about Molten Media Trust aiming to be a printing collective no longer applies. There seems to have been a change in direction towards computer recycling and reuse since then. Once again you think that simply because a person with anarchist leanings is within an organisation that complete organisation is anarchist. So you are saying because Molten Media was used as a contact for an anarchist in 1996 and there is an activist organisation called 176 Molten Media and I did some volunteer work for Molten Media makes me an anarchist? Gosh, with those sort of tenuous connection that would probably make everyone and anarchist. Can I suggest you actually TALK to people before you make a judgement of them?

Think a little more Trevor – with the analysis that you are making you should not be Loudon a computer . . . sorry could not resist it!

Like Jonah says – if you knew us you might like us! You seem to make out that anarchist and Green Party members are BAD people. On the contrary, the way I see it is the Left is altruistic by saying “what is in it for us?” and the Right say “what is in it for me?” The Right wing neo-liberal agenda is what’s stuffing up society and the environment amongst other things. So to spell it out in nice, easy to understand black and white terms for you – Greens = good, ACT = bad.

Accusing me of being an eco-terrorist is probably libellous but I will not waste time dragging you through the courts. It would be interesting though and I would donate the settlement to the Greens or SHVC! Is an eco-terrorist someone who trashes the environment or carries out acts of terrorists in order to protect the environment? Or is it economic terrorism?

You seen to overlook the fact that Greens and anarchists are striving for a more libertarian society. So are you truly a libertarian?


Alan Liefting

1:59 PM  
Anonymous Jonah said...

PROBABLY?, of course you'd like me, there's every reason to expect that!

Anyway, I just wanted to ask a few questions, you say you don't
personalise your politics much, how can you see yourself separate from them? They are your politics, they are a part of you whether you adopt them from an external source or generate them yourself.

Another thing, you say that what I am doing carried to it's logical extent might destroy your freedom?
Notwithstanding the fact that you don't know who I am, or what I am doing,
(besides starting a community gardens....is this what you are talking about? - they really aren't that oppressive)
what is the nature of this freedom you have which stands to be destroyed by another freedom?

You'll have to come to Westport to give me a hug, I work at the bike shop - pop in next time you're in town,
Jonah

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"On the contrary, the way I see it is the Left is altruistic by saying “what is in it for us?” and the Right say “what is in it for me?”"

Utter bullshit Alan.

What happens when 'The Left' get their fingers on the levers of power?

Death and opression on a massive scale.

If this is genuinlely news to you ,try googling 'Maoisim','Lenin', 'Stalin', 'Castro' 'Pol Pot' etc.

EXOCET

8:28 AM  
Anonymous Alan Liefting said...

And what about free-marketeer Pinochet? And what about Bush and the neo-cons causing indirect killings on a huge scale?

My comment applies to Western democracies but I forgot to qualify it in the heat of editing.

Try doing a little bit of unbiased research.


Alan Liefting

12:42 PM  

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