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Sunday, January 14, 2007

ALF Criminals At It Again

The sad thing about these thieves (apart from their mental state) is that their criminal activities probably turn some people off legitimate animal welfare organisations.

From Indymedia

Late last night (12/01/07) the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) broke into a battery farm in South Auckland and liberated 25 battery hens from a life of cruelty and suffering.



In the communique received by Auckland Animal Action (AAA) from the ALF, the activists referred to a similar action which occurred at the Logan Road farm in 2004.

Spokesperson for AAA Rochelle Rees says;

"We are extremely pleased about this liberation as 25 hens will now lead happy, healthy lives outdoors in natural conditions. They will be able to walk, enjoy the sun and socialize with each other instead of being cramped together in tiny cages in a dark shed."

"We especially applaud and encourage such courageous actions as this one, as the government have proven they are incapable of acting to end the suffering. By failing to abolish battery farming, the government has recklessly neglected these animals and condemned them to a lifetime of distress and suffering"


These people are not hard to track down. When are the police going to act against their blatant criminal activity?

Just off down to KFC for lunch.

79 Comments:

Blogger mah29001 said...

Wouldn't releasing those chickens who were released would quickly become road kill? As if hardcore socialism couldn't make animals victims of that.

11:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"These people are not hard to track down. When are the police going to act against their blatant criminal activity? "

I agree trev those factory farm owners breaching the minimalist industry written welfare codes should be tracked down and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. According to the TV1 story the owner of this particular farm may now be prosecuted as a result of the raid and the footage these activists took.

1:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plenty of food, company, and no predators, these chickens are living the good life.

1:42 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Just like people, these sort of hardcore socialists made everyone of them equally miserable.

1:44 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Anon 1 If the farm is mistreating animals it should be prosecuted.

A simple phone call would be enough.

The ALF people should also be prosecuted for Breaking and entering and theft.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

2:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Trevor, good to se you are still obsessed with property rights for animal abusing scumbags
I quite agree with your criticism of the police. Its been over a month since I confessed to rescuing hens from a foxton farm as i was hoping to get arrested and go to court about it. where are the police when you need them??
Mark Eden

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"a simple phone call would be enough" there you have Trevor's political naievity out there in the 7 words it takes to reveal it.
Give this bloke a fair go you people; we, as a caring responsible society, rightfully pay some of our taxes for the likes of him to be properly cared for.

10:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trevor, of all the things going on the world presently, you choose to highlight and condemn a group of idealistic young people who believe that it is right to rescue animals that are being ill-treated, despite what the Animal Welfare Act might say. Where is your outrage over the blood-bath in Iraq? Darfur? The human rights violations in North Korea? You are angry about chickens being liberated? That is what pisses you off? You need to examine yourself, my friend. If that is what people in the ACT Party get upset over then I need to change parties. Quickly.

10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, the scum bag who owns this farm happens to be on the National Party's Clevedon electorate committee.

10:53 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Anonymous,

How about you look up the profile of Robin Webb, the "spokesperson" of ALF based in Britain. He was caught on film teaching his fellow eco-terrorists how to make a home-made bomb.

Yea, that certainly paints the picture of these folk being "idealistic young peoples". Not! Webb also gave statements to the Animal Rights Militia movement and the Justice Department (not to be confused with the U.S. one) to which both groups have been known to make death threats and to even attempt to send bombs through the mail.

Yea, this sure sounds like a bunch of "idealistic young people". Not!

5:39 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"By the way, the scum bag who owns this farm happens to be on the National Party's Clevedon electorate committee."

So let me get this straight anonymous, you're happy that these folks did this? What if they happen to firebomb the place to "liberate" the animals?

6:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

man29001, you seem to be confusing Robin Webb with the people who carried out the action that Trevor posted on. I can assure you that they are not the same person. Robin Webb, to the best of my knowledge, was not there. I was not commenting on Mr Webb, as I do not know him. I was commenting on the people who carried out this specific action. They are, in my opinion, idealistic young people. If you have evidence to the contrary regarding thsi, please present it. Otherwise, go away and stop confusing yourself. Thanks.

And to answer your question, yes, I am happy that these folks did this. These hens will be much better off on a free range farm than in those cages.

9:12 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Anonymous, you really like to justify eco-terrorism don't you? Even one of them like Robin Webb was caught on film making home-made bombs for the "idealistic young people" you label them.

Your kind of apologetic attitude toward terrorism are typical. You are just like the radical anti-abortionist types who blow up abortion clinics for the shake of being "pro-life".

9:18 AM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Mark and anon

Mark Eden Unemployed, sentenced Griffiths to 100 hours community service and reparations of $1911 after smashing windows with slingshots, gluing locks and painting kill all duckshooters on the Complete Anglers Shop in central Chch on June 11 Press 2.7.96

This is an example of the idealistic young peple in the Animal rights Movement.

Do you think the shop powner would have been inspired by Mark's "idealism"?

Vandalism in the name of animal rights is simply a low grade form of terrorism.

It is done to intimidate and to force one's views on others.

I support improved animal welfare policies and, believe it or not, am actually opposed to battery hen farming.

I believe the practice will eventually go the way of bear-baiting and slavery.

It will be achieved however through peaceful and legal means, not by anarchist inspired vandalism and intimidation.

I am in ACT, because every ACT supporter I know (regardless of their views on animal welfare) believes that private property rights and human liberty must be protected by the law, if we want to live in a civilised society.

9:33 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Trevor,

I also compared anonymous' apologetic attitude toward these eco-terrorists on the same lines as the Faux Rightist anti-abortion terrorists. I say that these anti-abortionists are not right-wing because they use similar methods of recruitment and radicalization so that their followers can commit these sort of deeds just like how ALF uses groups like PETA, Greenpeace and others as a recruitment and radicalization front.

9:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"These hens will be much better off on a free range farm than in those cages"
Don't you mean YOU THINK these hens will be much better off on a free.....

1:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, that's not what I think, it's what I know. We recently took on several hens that had been bought from a factory farm and were either in need of a new home or destined to get the chop. They were released into our backyard, and although when they arrived they had feathers missing and were scared of the weather and natural enrivonment they soon adapted to their new home. They began to dustbath and peck and scratch at the dirt. They became friendly and would squat to be picked up and stroked. They expressed individual personalities and we gave them names. They ate well, they lay about, and generally had great lives. They then moved to another property where they would have several acres to live on. If you think that they would rather go back into the cages than live the life they have now, then I can do nothing for you except advise you to get professional help.

9:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

> ... am actually opposed to battery hen farming.
> ... It will be achieved however through peaceful and legal means, not by anarchist inspired vandalism and intimidation.

The ONLY reason that there is much discussion about battery farming is because people have ignored private property signs. The farmers hide behind 'private property' to violate the law. The SPCA, MAF, and the police all have rights to go into the properties to check for violations of the animal welfare legislation. They do so when there is a complaint. Which if no-one is able to get into the property, there cannot be a complaint.

The problem is that toothless legislation is useless. Basically the legislation should have a provision for a DUTY for MAF to do suprise inspections at least once a year. Then legal means would be effective, because the bloody useless MAF could be legally attacked for not doing what they should be doing.

Frankly your statements are just hypocritical. Rather than abusing the people who go into the farms to bring out footage showing the true state of some factory farms, go and do some work making the legislation so it is enforceable.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

> It is done to intimidate and to force one's views on others.

Crap. My niece Rochelle protests peacefully, and has only done one thing that was illegal - when she was 15 - chaining herself to a fur shop. Since then the only intimidation I've seen has been by the police. She has been harrassed by stupid police prosecutions. She has won every time, 3 times at district court, and on appeal to the High Court twice. Has one more on appeal.

The two at High Court were:-

1. Intimidation by Loitering - at a peaceful protest outside a shop selling imported factory farmed fur. This involved the police executing a search warrant at her house and holding her possessions for up to 14 months (including many computers, video camera and cellphone). For some strange reason, the high court judge didn't think that protesting was intimidation...

2. Disorderly behaviour. This was chanting on a megaphone at a protest outside a hotel hosting a poultry farming conference. The High Court judge, in his judgement said she should have never been arrested in the first place.

In the first one, it was a rather strange section of the Summary Offenses Act designed against gangs. It has never previously been used for protests.

In my opinion, it was used so the police could get the search warrant, which they couldn't have got for any more reasonable charge like disorderly behaviour. They used the same strange logic as mah29001 uses. Someone elsewhere does something and has opinions similar to mine - therefore I'm guilty. More like a communist or fascist way of thinking than anything else - something that the police share with mah29001 and yourself.

This cost the family and Rochelle a lot hiring a QC to defend Rochelle. We pitched in because Rochelle is a peaceful protestor, and it was clear violation of justice by the police. Personally I think it was just the rather stupid branch of the police trying to intimidate and stifle peaceful protest. Her private property was held without good reason for 14 months based on spurious reasons in the search warrant. It will probably go to the Supreme Court before the police are forced to grant restitution.

Maybe you should look at the way the police use intimation by prosecution and violation of private property. It is clearly a bigger threat than people taking film of people actually violating the law.

BTW: Re: "These people are not hard to track down. When are the police going to act against their blatant criminal activity? "

You're right, Rochelle is not hard to track down. You can watch her on the news talking about this chicken farm raid at http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411416/958611 . She had nothing to do with the raid. Just explained the footage to the media.

Also try doing a google search for "Rochelle Rees" and you will see she is quite open about her views and activities. She has a profile similar to yours.

Lynn Prentice

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmm good one Trev - defamation, copyright theft and talking out of a hole in your head with self-righteous indignation on things you know nothing about. A true ACT man.

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Money, greed and cruelty before anything like humanity. Who needs ethics when you can have profit? Protect those who don't give a shit as long as they are in business.

Brought to you by the
Association of Creeps and Tossers

12:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Money, greed and cruelty before anything like humanity. Who needs ethics when you can have profit? Protect those who don't give a shit as long as they are in business.

Brought to you by the
Association of Creeps and Tossers

12:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"By the way, the scum bag who owns this farm happens to be on the National Party's Clevedon electorate committee."

How do you know this? Do you happen to have any more info?

12:37 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Anonymous,

What's your comments on Robin Webb getting caught on film making a home-made bombs for his fellow eco-terrorists? Your kind are typical in being apologists to terrorists.

5:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mah29001

In 1979 I went into the territorial army, for many reasons. Amongst which was the general principle taught to scouts - "be prepared". If I ever got drafted then I preferred to be well trained. If I had to help in a revolution to overthrow my government, I preferred to be well trained.

By your standards I'm a terrorist for BOTH of those reasons, I was preparing for conflict. However it is the ACT of possessing banned weapons, or of using them that is evidence of crime - not the training. For some strange reason, this is what the legal system accepts.

Otherwise I would be able to convict you for the thoughts that are currently in your head. Frankly I'm not into trying to understand your motivations, just your actions.

7:48 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

And yet anonymous, you would fail to condemn Robin Webb for being involved in teaching eco-terrorists how to make a home-made bomb. Who cares that such a bomb could also harm the very animals you "liberate". You are just like PETA who also leave the animals they "liberate" dead like the cat and her two kittens. Pathetic.

8:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"By the way, the scum bag who owns this farm happens to be on the National Party's Clevedon electorate committee."

How do you know this? Do you happen to have any more info?

Sure. He is a right wanker. He has been in trouble with the SPCA in the past. I have heard him tell people that they didn't like that he would kill hens by pulling their heads off with his hands. I have heard him tell people this first hand. I know he is a member of the electorate committee in Clevedon. He is active. He goes to meetings. He is only one person but it is quite sad that this is the kind of person who happens to be involved with the National Party. Oh well.

9:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mah29001

You miss the point (stupidly or deliberate ?). Playing with techniques to make bombs is NOT illegal - it is just knowledge.

I haven't looked at the video - but I'll bet it doesn't look very different to training sessions I've done in the army, or to those of friends who are rocket nuts.

From my experience with explosives, I'm certain you couldn't tell from a film if they were using real explosives or not (all looks like stiff putty) or an accelerant (liquids). So there is no evidence that they were making a bomb. I'll take a bet that you cannot point to where any of those people actually used a bomb or other device. So the film is completely irrelevant unless there is an act using that techniques, and you can link people to the act.

Before there is a crime you must have an act. Lookup actus reus / mens rea on wikipedia and consider that actus reus has to be proven before mens rea can be considered.

So you are attempting to condemn people for refusing to condemn a legal activity ? Done purely on the basis of what you THINK are the motivations or thinking of the people in the film ? If that was a legal principle, you could convict libertarians for what they would like to do to unborn grandchildren...

Are you really that much of a thought police dickhead ?

All that being said, from what you describe, I think that whathisname (Webb) is a dickhead as well. But that is just my opinion.

10:34 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

So let me get this straight anonymous, you think it's fine and dandy for these eco-terrorists to use home-made bombs to "liberate" these animals? Even when the bombs could also end up killing them too?

Killing them to liberate them, where does that sound so familiar? Oh wait, the Palestinian Liberation Organization kills Palestinians to "liberate" them just like your pals in ALF.

10:47 AM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

To Lynn Prentice

It is admirable that you rally around a family member in trouble with the law.

It would be even more admirable, if you would sit your niece down and tell her that openly condoning burglarly and theft is not kosher.

The world is full of people who think that their strongly held opinions give them the right to trample on the rights of others.

If you don't want your niece to turn into such a person, a good heart to heart talk might be in order.

10:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,
Robin Webb was never charged for any offence to do with that film, mainly cos the undercover reported was trying to entrap him so it wouldnt stand up in court, also, the Egg producers federation has today called for the auckland farm to be prosecuted and shut down. It so bad that even other battery farmers are embarassed, and the only way this was brought ot public attention was because the ALF broke in and exposed it.
thirdly John banks was on radio pacific the other day saying he loved the idea of tegel chicken factorys being burnt down. even a former minister of police and freind of ACT is supporting direct action against factory farming.
why? because the lawful and democratic methods that trevor likes, have TOTALLY failed in this case. Animal rights activists have the public on our side, the science on our side and the law on our side, but Jim Anderton overulled a parliamentary committee to allow the egg industry to be exempt from the animal welfare act, unlike anyone else in NZ, because their profits are more important than anything else.
A Chicken

1:48 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Pity you don't have right on your side Chicken.

1:57 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Hey Chicken,

Won't using one of those home-made bombs Robin Webb was introducing on film actually hurt those animals while they are being "liberated"? Hmm?

2:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We Won’t Tolerate Bad Eggs
Tuesday, 16 January 2007, 9:01 am
Press Release: Egg Producers Federation

Licensed Producers: We Won’t Tolerate Bad Eggs

New Zealand’s egg producers say they’re appalled by reports of animal
cruelty on an illegal egg farm in South Auckland.

News footage broadcast on TV1 on Saturday (January 13) showed neglected
layer hens struggling in poor conditions on a property housing an
unauthorised caged hen operation.

The footage was reportedly captured by animal activists.

The governing body for egg producers is the Egg Producers Federation (EPF)
of New Zealand. EPF Executive Director, Michael Brooks says his members are
shocked and angry by what they saw.

“The appalling state of the property and its birds would never be tolerated
by our members,” he says.

“It is important for consumers to know the man at the centre of the
complaints is not a licensed egg producer. He is an illegal operator, acting
outside the control of the EPF.”

“This property has no Risk Management Programme so it is not legally
permitted to even sell eggs.”

Mr Brooks says the industry was already aware of the illegal operation. The
EPF had reported it to MAF Animal Welfare and the New Zealand Food Safety
Authority.

Mr Brooks says eggs from the illegal operation should not be on sale in New
Zealand shops and supermarkets. Most retail outlets buy their eggs from only
licensed egg producers.

“New Zealand consumers can be reassured that this footage is an unacceptable
but isolated case.

“Our members are completely committed to animal welfare.”

“We do not support anyone found to be in breach of the Animal Welfare Act.
In fact we haven’t had to - none of our members has been prosecuted for
breaching the Layer Hen Welfare Code.”

“The industry will continue to support any moves to force illegal operators
out of business.”

ENDS

3:59 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Interesting. So this "bad egg" could have quite easily been potted without resorting to criminal behaviour.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually no - the "bad egg" could not have been potted without the ALF. As you can see in the EPF press release, they had contacted MAF and the New Zealand Food Safety Authority. Neither of these organisations did a thing.

It is only because of the work of the ALF taking horrific footage and photographs on the farm; and Auckland Animal Action taking that information to the media, that maybe now something will happen as the SPCA are aware and may prosecute.

4:57 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

So let me get this straight about ALF. ALF's job is to make the bad eggs to even worse eggs by this sort of criminal behavior?

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Media release: Auckland Animal Action
Tuesday 16th January 2007
MAF failed to act on Battery Hen Farm operating illegally

The Egg Producers Federation (EPF) today said that they knew the Somerdale Poultry Lodge that activists raided on the weekend was operating illegally. Michael Brooks from the EPF said they had laid complaints with MAF Animal Welfare and the New Zealand Food Safety Authority.

Auckland Animal Action (AAA) wants to know why MAF did not do their job and investigate the complaint and shut the farm down. Spokesperson for AAA Rochelle Rees says, "MAF have demonstrated repeatedly that they don't care about the welfare of animals. In a recent case in Wellington, animal rights activists investigated a pig farm, and found that the pens were smaller than the minimum required in the codes of welfare. The activists laid a complaint with MAF who as per usual failed to take any action."

Because MAF won't act, the only people left with the authority to prosecute breaches of the Animal Welfare Act are the SPCA, a non-profit organization who receives no government funding. The SPCA only tends to prosecute in the most extreme cases of animal abuse, as they lack the resources to do more. They also lack the resources to investigate every farm, and as a result rely on complaints to draw their attention to serious breaches of the Animal Welfare Act.

Ms Rees says, "We see time and time again cases of severe animal cruelty and no consequences for the people responsible. The only reason the SPCA know about the conditions at the Somerdale Poultry Lodge, is because animal rights activists illegally broke into the farm and extensively documented the cruelty."

"It is ridiculous that MAF, the government funded ministry responsible for animal welfare fail to investigate complaints and prosecute for cruelty. Meanwhile it takes individuals such as animal rights activists to risk their own freedom enforcing the law."

The poultry farm at 4 Logan Rd was ordered to close by the Franklin District Council in 1997 because of the odours and flies coming from the farm, as well as Van Den Bogaarts refusal to comply with his 1992 resource consent. (Details of the case are attached)

"Here we have a man - Mr Van Den Bogaart - who has convictions for animal cruelty and who has had his poultry farm shut down by the Franklin District Council at least once. If we had a decent animal welfare enforcement agency in New Zealand, the Somerdale Poultry Lodge and property at 4 Logan Road would have been monitored regularly and the owner held to account for his repeated neglect and abuse of animals." says Ms Rees.

For further information, please contact AAA spokesperson Rochelle Rees on 021-175-1399 or aucklandanimalaction (at) yahoo.com

The last press release from Auckland Animal Action regarding the Somerdale Poultry Lodge is at: indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/72275/index.php

From BRIEFCASE

Franklin District Council v Van Den Bogaart
Year: 1997
Date: 7 September 1997
Court: Environment Court
File no: Decision A114/97
Pages: 15
Reported: Not Reported
Noted: [1997] BCL 1274
[1997] BRM Gazette 161

Classification: Resource management

Description: Successful application for enforcement order requiring B to cease poultry farming; council claimed B breached conditions of a consent for extension to farm, and failed to comply with an enforcement order; consent conditions related to limiting noise levels, mitigating odours and manure disposal; respondent admitted he had no intention of complying with many of the original consent conditions;

Held, orders requesting B to cease farming and remove chickens and manure from the land within 14 days were granted; because history of non-compliance, compliance orders also granted under Resource Management Act 1991 s 315; authorised the council to enter farm to remove chickens, manure, and recover costs, in the event of non-compliance

Statutes: Resource Management Act 1991 s 314, s 315

10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

god you guys are idiots. talk about fringe. the grand 2% ACT party. says it all really. and now i read you can't even manage to muster enough looneys to have an annual conference. sad, lonely impotent dorks. keep howling at the moon lads.

11:11 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Once again with folks like anonymous, they are defending criminals and terrorists like those in Animal Liberation Front. What of these people firebombed the place to "liberate" those animals? How about some of them like Robin Webb being caught on film trying to make a home-made bomb? Yea, really shows how "peaceful" and "nonviolent" people like you really are. Not!

4:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trevor,

I'd point out that I've worked around farms for most of my early life. I don't share most of Rochelle's beliefs except I really detest bad farmers. I do consider it a responsibility of citizens to help enforce the law.

MAF and the Police aren't doing their jobs. Looking through the material on this particular farm, it looks like there has been action against the owners from the local council for offense against his neighbors from 1995 onwards. I'd bet that the neighbors have also complained to MAF Animal Welfare, police and probably the SPCA since then.

The SPCA as a voluntary, unfunded operation have limits on how many prosecutions they can bring - they are also the only ones that consistently prosecute. They also have financial limits on how many things they can look at. Both the Police and MAF can both prosecute under various act's. MAF seems to do it very occasionally in extreme cases.

So the system in animal welfare isn't working because the Police and MAF Animal Welfare fail in their duty to investigate. That currently leaves it up to citizens to get the evidence, which since it is illegal to trespass, means that you get the ALF. In NZ this appears to be an underground association that concentrates on getting evidence to force prosecutions through public pressure - something I actually have to find is quite admirable.

At present I can't see any way that these bad farmers have effective action taken against them apart from when the ALF gets footage into the media.

So I'd suggest that if you don't want the ALF, then work on ways to enforce the current laws. See if you can find ways to kick MAF and the police into doing their jobs.

BTW: The police have probably cost the taxpayers close to 250k prosecuting Rochelle (and failing to get convictions) for pointing out problems with the animal welfare system in NZ in the last 4 years. That alone (ignoring all other cases) is probably more than the amount they have spent on people violating the animal welfare legislation that they have a clear duty to do. Their standard response apparently is to try to push complaints to the SPCA - who don't have the state funding to bring the prosecutions.

So I'll have that discussion with Rochelle, when I see the Police and MAF doing their jobs.

Lynn Prentice

10:52 AM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Lynn I simply do not believe that with a bit of imagination, that a legal way of highlighting this problem could not be found.

The ALF cares more about anarchy than animals. Criminality and its consequent publicity are their favoured tactics, not a "last resort"

How else do you explain their harassment of fur wearers and duckshooters and the vandalism of butcher shops as outlined in one of my posts above?

The ALF has cleverly tageted an area to which the public is sympathetic, but that doesn't make their actions any less criminal or their true motives any more pure.

If Rochelle really wants to help animals, she should get a law degree, join a reputable animal welfare organisation or become the most zealous animal welfare officer in the country.

There are many better options than supporting a cowardly bunch of anarcho criminals like the ALF.

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Trevor,

I was wondering why you seem to think that by supporting this particular action by the ALF it means I also support all their actions?

I support the ALF going into the Somerdale Poultry Lodge and gathering evidence and liberating chickens. Because of their actions, the SPCA may now actually be able to shut the farm down.

That does not mean that I support some of their more extreme actions. I form my opinions on each individual action.

Does the fact that you are vice-president of the ACT party mean that you support and agree with absolutely every thing they ever say or do? I would think not.

Rochelle Rees

12:11 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Rees, Prentice or whoever you ALF type eco-terror thugs really are. I am really having a hard time of you folks trying to justify criminal behavior. You folks are just like those abortionist bombers and folks like Pat Robertson who justifies similar acts or perhaps folks like Neal Horsley and the other turds over at the Army of God who support terrorism and other criminal activities.

You just simply can't seem to get it that you are promoting criminal behavior along with eco-terrorism.

12:32 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

I don't know your views on every issue Rochelle. I stated that you should not have condoned burglary and theft-that is all.

The very least you could have done is said something like "while I deplore the criminal activities of the ALF, we cannot ignore the evidence they have uncovered..."

Illegally gathered evidence is admissible in NZ courts I believe, though I do not think it should be.

By condoning criminality, you do your own cause a great disservice.

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Simply put, as Ghandi said: "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty"

12:39 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Nothing wrong with resistance-its criminality I object to.

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is fairly obvious in the context of the quote that Ghandi meant breaking the law becomes duty. ie, when injustice becomes law, resisting the law becomes duty.

That interpretation is backed up by his actions of civil disobedience which did break the law, though non-violent and peaceful.

12:52 PM  
Blogger Asher said...

"Criminality and its consequent publicity are their favoured tactics, not a "last resort""

Not correct Trevor. Criminality in and of itsef is irrelevant - the favoured tactic (and indeed in my mind the only one worth pursuing) is direct action. To quote myself (http://anarchia.wordpress.com/2007/01/09/direct-action/):

"Direct action is any action which, if successful, achieves the desired result/s in and of itself, without appealing to a “higher power”. Direct action is based on the idea that we should all run our own lives, and that asking someone else to make a change for us, even if the change is made, is counter-productive as it only reinforces the idea that we cannot act for ourselves."

And to quote Reclaim The Streets (UK):

"“Reclaim the Streets does not see direct action as a last resort, but a preferred way of doing things … a way for individuals to take control of their own lives and environments … If global civilisation does not manage to destroy the ecosphere and human civilisation … and a new culture of social and ecological justice is developed .. Reclaim the Streets would hope that direct action would not stop but continue to be a central part of a direct democratic system.”"

If direct action is taken, then the (il)legality of the action becomes only a matter of practicality - whether the risk of arrest is small enough (as those who rescue animals from death farms think, for example) or if it is worthwhile (as those who lock themselves to fur shop doors, for example).

mah29001 - The ALF worldwide, in thousands of actions, has never hurt anyone. This is not an accident, but rather one of the key ALF guidelines.

I wholeheartedly support the ALF, and hope they continue in their fine work!

12:54 PM  
Blogger Asher said...

Oh, and Trev, I'm still waiting for you to quit ACT like you promised.

12:55 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty"

Does that mean doing more harm to those who you proclaim to "liberate"?

12:59 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"The ALF worldwide, in thousands of actions, has never hurt anyone. This is not an accident, but rather one of the key ALF guidelines.

I wholeheartedly support the ALF, and hope they continue in their fine work!"

Yep, folks like you folks fit the profile of folks like the abortionist bombers and abortion doctor killers. They're "liberating" unborn babies like how you are "liberating" animals as well.

You don't care should you hurt any body in the process of doing the deed and would rather ignore any reports of folks like you actually hurting. How about arsonists bombing SUVs which damage the environment? Do you care about that?

You're nothing more than an apologist to not just criminal acts, but acts of terrorism.

1:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>The very least you could have done is said something like "while I deplore the criminal activities of the ALF, we cannot ignore the evidence they have uncovered..."

But I don't deplore this particular criminal action of breaking into the Somerdale Poultry Lodge and gathering evidence and liberating chickens.

I am pleased these activists did what they did because now maybe the farm will shut down. Otherwise, with MAF being as useless as they are, the farm would most likely stay open for a long long time.

Rochelle

1:05 PM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Asher-I'm all for action to effect positive chage. It is the quality and ethics of that action that is at issue.

I disapprove of DOC's control of 60% of the South Island.

That doesn't give the right to vandalise DOC iffices or steal DOC property.

Action without rational ethical guidelins can do far more harm than good.

Keep up the action Asher, just amp up the ethics and the rationality.

1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Trevor Loudon,

I am writing to request you remove a photograph on your blog which you copied without permission from my company website. The website at www.gravitate.co.nz clearly states that all content is copyright to Gravitate Limited. The exact wording is as follows:

“All content, images and text © 2004 Gravitate Limited. All rights reserved.
Phone: +64 9 309 5015 | Fax: +64 9 309 5025 | Email: info@gravitate.co.nz”

I note that you are currently the vice president of the Act New Zealand Party. Act’s public position is to protect private property and copyrighted material. A quick search on the Act party website, brought up the following article stating ACT party policy on this issue: http://www.act.org.nz/news-article.aspx?id=24287

The image I take issue with was posted on your blog at newzeal.blogspot.com a couple of days ago and is of me, a staff member at Gravitate Limited, Rochelle Rees. It is under the headline: “ALF Criminals At It Again”. Aside from private property considerations, I am not a member of the ALF - which your article seems to imply. I request that you remove this image from your blog immediately, or ask Gravitate for permission to use it.

Kind Regards,

Rochelle Rees

11:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Trevor Loudon,

I am writing to request you remove a photograph on your blog which you copied without permission from my company website. The website at www.gravitate.co.nz clearly states that all content is copyright to Gravitate Limited. The exact wording is as follows:

“All content, images and text © 2004 Gravitate Limited. All rights reserved.
Phone: +64 9 309 5015 | Fax: +64 9 309 5025 | Email: info@gravitate.co.nz”

I note that you are currently the vice president of the Act New Zealand Party. Act’s public position is to protect private property and copyrighted material. A quick search on the Act party website, brought up the following article stating ACT party policy on this issue: http://www.act.org.nz/news-article.aspx?id=24287

The image I take issue with was posted on your blog at newzeal.blogspot.com yesterday and is of me, a staff member of Gravitate Limited, Rochelle Rees. It is under the headline: “ALF Criminals At It Again”. Aside from private property considerations, I am not a member of the ALF. I request that you remove this image from your blog immediately, or ask permission from Gravitate to use it.

Kind Regards,

Rochelle Rees

11:18 PM  
Blogger Asher said...

"Yep, folks like you folks fit the profile of folks like the abortionist bombers and abortion doctor killers. They're "liberating" unborn babies like how you are "liberating" animals as well."

Abortion doctor killers murder people. The ALF, as I said (and you ignored), has never hurt anyone in its existance, and that is a stated part of the way its actions occur. Either stop putting up straw men, or shut up.

"How about arsonists bombing SUVs which damage the environment? Do you care about that?"

In theory, I support destroying SUVs when done at the source (dealerships etc) - the negative impact to the environment from 1 fire pales in comparison to the impact that SUV would have during its lifetime. I don't support burning SUVs that are already on the road, although I wouldn't condemn it either - while I can understand the reasoning behind it, I feel that, in terms of class issues and the imposition of consumerism by our current society, it seems rather pointless to target personally owned SUVs.

Thats in theory - tactically and strategically it isn't always that useful an action to take.

"I disapprove of DOC's control of 60% of the South Island.

That doesn't give the right to vandalise DOC iffices or steal DOC property."

How would vandalising offices or stealing property effect what you call "DOC's control of 60% of the South Island"? It wouldn't, even if you succeeded in destroying lots of property and/or stealing lots of stuff. Therefore, it is not direct action - reread the definition I posted yesterday for clarification if you need.

Liberating chickens from a life of hell, on the other hand, is direct action - it gives those liberated chickens a life of freedom.

1:16 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Abortion doctor killers murder people. The ALF, as I said (and you ignored), has never hurt anyone in its existance, and that is a stated part of the way its actions occur. Either stop putting up straw men, or shut up."

What's in common between folks like you and anti-abortionist radicals is that you both commit criminal behavior.

"In theory, I support destroying SUVs when done at the source (dealerships etc) - the negative impact to the environment from 1 fire pales in comparison to the impact that SUV would have during its lifetime. I don't support burning SUVs that are already on the road, although I wouldn't condemn it either - while I can understand the reasoning behind it, I feel that, in terms of class issues and the imposition of consumerism by our current society, it seems rather pointless to target personally owned SUVs."

More endorsement of criminal behavior. My dad's SUV was ruined by a turdling like you. This is criminal behavior and you and the anti-abortionist radicals are one and the same when they promote criminal behavior.

"Liberating chickens from a life of hell, on the other hand, is direct action - it gives those liberated chickens a life of freedom."

Hey, the anti-abortionist radical Neal Horsley believes the same thing about the unborn and owned a website detailing the homes of abortion doctors along with praising abortion doctor killers. You are simply on that same line as Horsley.

4:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trevor, please stop stealing other people's property. What are you - a member of the Labour Party or something?

8:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I support direct action too. Direct action against vandalising far-left little terrorist like Asher and ALF.

I hope you guys don't become active down here.

EXOCET

8:29 AM  
Blogger Trevor Loudon said...

Rochelle. Have removed photo. Sorry about that, I should have realised that a site like that would be copyrighted.

10:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Trevor.

I actually don't have an issue with you having a photo of me on your blog. Just that the one of Gravitate's website was not very flattering and we are changing it soon.

There are plenty of protest photos of me on the web that are not copyrighted.

Rochelle

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What you doing to do if they do, exocet?

10:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fire yourself at them?

10:57 AM  
Blogger Asher said...

mah29001 - Great logic there buddy. Sorry, I don't bite on straw men.

2:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Liberating chickens from a life of hell...
Life in a cage may not resemble a chickens natural lifestyle or be its *preference* but if food and water is provided and the animal is not in pain it's hardly hell.

3:11 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Liberating chickens from a life of hell...
Life in a cage may not resemble a chickens natural lifestyle or be its *preference* but if food and water is provided and the animal is not in pain it's hardly hell."

Liberating chickens into the street to become road kill is helpful how?

4:10 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"mah29001 - Great logic there buddy. Sorry, I don't bite on straw men."

Sorry, no strawman here. The analogy between folks like eco-terror apologists like yourself and folks like Neal Horsley are based on the same subject that you are an ideologue who wouldn't mind justifying violence.

4:11 PM  
Blogger Asher said...

mah29001 - Again with the straw man argument - "Liberating chickens into the street to become road kill is helpful how?".

The ALF does not liberate chickens to leave them in the street. On the contrary, the chickens are re-homed by loving people who allow them to live out their normal lives in peace and happiness.

Anonymous - Go watch some video footage of battery farms, there's no shortage around (taken by the ALF and groups like it). Then try and tell me that isn't hell.

5:49 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"The ALF does not liberate chickens to leave them in the street. On the contrary, the chickens are re-homed by loving people who allow them to live out their normal lives in peace and happiness."

So how about those cats that were left dead by PETA, front for ALF and ELF types? And is it legal to have a chicken as a pet? Highly questionable.

6:50 PM  
Blogger Asher said...

In case you haven't noticed, PETA is a predominantly American animal rights group, which exists in and of itself, and most certainly isn't a "front for ALF and ELF types", many of whom have big problems with the way PETA goes about its work.

I don't know the case you're talking about, personally, but again, I stress, if you've got a problem with PETA, then, obviously, you need to take it up with them. Not the ALF, and certainly not the ALF in Aotearoa.

1:25 AM  
Blogger Asher said...

Is it legal to have a chicken as a pet? I haven't got a clue, and nor do I care.

1:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A chicken as a pet? What does that mean - Keep it in the house?

2:43 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Is it legal to have a chicken as a pet? I haven't got a clue, and nor do I care."

Is it legal to keep something like a chicken as a pet? I doubt it. Is it legal to "liberate" that chicken? Most certainly for sure.

2:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The ALF does not liberate chickens to leave them in the street. On the contrary, the chickens are re-homed by loving people who allow them to live out their normal lives in peace and happiness."

So esentially, you are stealing chickens. You are justifying theft.

And as far as I can tell, keeping chooks in a urban area is against some sort of lamearse bylaw.

Shame. If more people were alowed to keep chooks at home, there would be less demand for battery farm eggs.

EXOCET

8:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Keeping chickens in an urban area is not against a bylaw. The Manukau City Council (I don't know about other councils) lets people keep up to 12 chickens, but the space has to be a certain size and various other things have to comply. We took on ten chooks that had been bought from a factory farmer who was about to dispatch them. They went from being stuck in a tiny cage to having the run of our whole back yard. Once they got over their fear of the elements, their feathers grew back, and their skin healed (rubbed red raw from being up against the cage for so long) they began to display the "natural patterns of behaviour" that the Animal Welfare Act supposedly says they should be able to. They were not a lot of hassle to look after, and we got huge eggs every day. Eventually a neighbour complained about the noise and they got shipped off to a farm. Now they have several acres to run around in. That is my idea of a happy chicken. Defend factory farms all you want, but history will record that you are on the wrong side of this argument.

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm actually not defending factor farms at all, so you can get down off your high horse anytime you like.

I am defending private property rights and the rule of law. There is a difference you know.

EXOCET

10:02 AM  
Blogger kiore1 said...

Life in a cage may not resemble a chickens natural lifestyle or be its *preference* but if food and water is provided and the animal is not in pain it's hardly hell."

Wrong several times. Hens in cages cannot exercice, as a result they are prone to cage layer osteoporosis, which is very painful, especially when they are removed by the legs for slaughter and the legs snap. This has been well documented in the scientific literature.

Secondly, hens, like dogs, cats and indeed humans require mental stimulation to avoid insanity, indicate by what ethologists call "stereotype behaviour. Hens are not plants and it is not sufficient merely to see to their physical needs. The requirement for behavioural needs to be met as well is part of the Animal Welfare Act, and it is again well documented in the scientific literature.

I would be very interested in whether the above poster would be satisfied living in solitary confinement in a confined space with absolutely nothing to do, even if all his/her physical needs were met.

What ALF did was illegal, and under the law it is theft. Nobody is disputing this. But this does not mean it is immoral, and it does not mean that those who believe the welfare of hens should take precedence over an unjust law are mentally ill. If they are then you would also have to condemn those who illegally hid Anne Frank and her family (aftr all they were the legal property of the Nazis) and anyone who hid runaway slaves or helped them to escape (which was also illegal at the time).

In fact, the regulations review committee decided that according to the Animal Welfare Act, keeping hens in battery cages should be illegal. This arrogant and dictatorial government (no disagreement there, eh, ACT supporters) overturned the Committee, insisting that they knew best.

AR groups (not the ALF but above ground groups) wrote submissions, appealed to the RRC and generally played the game by the govt. rules, and won. the government responded by changing the rules. So legal and legitimate means of improving the lot of battery hens, pigs and broiler chickens simply do not work.

www.epf.org.nz

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