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Wednesday, January 07, 2009

More Socialist Propaganda on Gaza

RAM is a front for the Socialist Worker Trotskyists, which like their British counterpart in the Socialist Workers Party, seeks to overturn capitalism through a Marxist/Muslim alliance.

Grant Brookes is a leading of Socialist Worker activist. Here's some Socialist Worker propaganda on the Israeli action in Gaza.

From Indymedia

RAM – Residents Action Movement

6 January, 2009

Wellington RAM members today took part in a 300-strong protest against Israel’s assault on Gaza.

It’s fitting that the protest began outside the Ministry of Foreign Affairs”, said Residents Action Movement spokesperson Grant Brookes. “If the Minister, Murray McCully, is acting in accordance with the advice of his officials, then the Ministry deserves to be targeted by protesters.”

The Foreign Minister has said little on the biggest international crisis of the day, apart from declaring that New Zealand “won’t choose sides” in the conflict.

British prime minister Gordon Brown has called for an immediate ceasefire”, said Grant Brookes. “Venezuela’s popular president, Hugo Chavez, has condemned the Israeli attacks as criminal, and called for ‘a massive campaign of repudiation’. Our government should do likewise.”

“National’s refusal to speak out against the slaughter of Palestinian civilians is simply a continuation of what the last Labour government called its ‘even handed approach’.”

RAM is committed to building a broad people’s movement which also stands in elections, to create a grassroots alternative to the morally bankrupt politicians of National, Labour and their coalition allies.”

22 Comments:

Anonymous Reid of America said...

"The Foreign Minister has said little on the biggest international crisis of the day"

Does the foreign minister have to always say something?

Is the Gaza war the biggest international crisis of the day? I don't think so. It is just todays excuse for the loyal order of the perpetually outraged left to come out and display their righteous indignation. Most of us would prefer a day of golfing or fishing but the perpetually outraged left prefers making a public spectacle. To the radicals I say protest all you want just stay off the golf course and don't interrupt automobile traffic.

12:26 PM  
Anonymous George said...

In April and May of 1943 the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto were surrounded by barbed wire fences by the occupiers of Poland, and they faced a choice, in the words of a cry of Zapata, they could die on their knees or they could live forever.

They chose to rise up against their occupier, to use their bodies as weapons against their occupier, dig tunnels, to fight not to die, in ones and twos of hunger, but to die as free men and women.

Today, the Palestinian people in Gaza, are the new Warsaw ghetto, and those who are murdering them are the equivalent of those that murdered the Jews in 1943.

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get a grip George. In no way are the situations the same.

If your neighbour kept lobbing rocks into your backyard for years on end would you just laugh and say "oh that's just him..." I don't think so.

On this occasion the Israeli's do have a case for action. It is about time the handwringers like you had a broader aproach to your thinking.

2:26 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Today, the Palestinian people in Gaza, are the new Warsaw ghetto, and those who are murdering them are the equivalent of those that murdered the Jews in 1943."

Pathetic holocaust revisionism. How about Hamas using schools, and other civilian buildings to fire rockets into Israel? Last time I checked, Jews stuck in Poland never had that capability, even when they rebelled against the Nazis, they never held this capability either. Or did any of the atrocities of what Hamas has done, such as suicide bombings.

5:47 AM  
Anonymous George said...

Hardly revisionism. Your attempts to look at the ballistics used rather than the tactics used (which is what defines terrorism) is a desparate act of distraction away from the fact that the militant wing of the Jews in Poland carried out hundreds of summary executions of both Jews, Germans and Pols.

The reason they did this is because they came to the conclusion that the Germans without admitting it, intended to exterminate them all.

The only conclusion the non-Hamas Palestinians have come to from these repeated attacks on their houses and suburbs are not the ones Livni is trying to sell on TV.

They seem to have come to the same conclusion the Jews of the Poland came to, and that is that these military excursions into their area laying thousands of them waste at a time, are part of a process of systematic extermination.

Now you can rant and rave about that all you like, but this is the conclusion "they" have come to, this is the reality and you can hear it in their voices as they scream in pain carrying their dead children into hospitals.

The fault of that lays with the Israeli Government and its concentrating of Palestinians into the great Ghetto called Gaza, walling up of civilians, and now dropping them like flies under flyspray with their military might.

That is the reality on the ground in Gaza and that is the reality future Israelis are going to have to deal with, when these extremely traumatised children reach the age when they can carry a gun and build mortar and rockets.

Ask yourself this question Mah, had those Jews in those Ghettos captured themselves some German V1 Rockets, dont you think they would have been desparate enough to use them?

10:49 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Ask yourself this question Mah, had those Jews in those Ghettos captured themselves some German V1 Rockets, dont you think they would have been desparate enough to use them?"

George, there is really no "debate" between your view and my view. You oddly see anyone who is pro-Israel to be "like" the Nazis. Even though the group Israel is fighting-Hamas, celebrates the Protocols of Zion, a rabidly anti-Semitic piece of propaganda crafted from the Czarist secret police.

You can not "debate" me on how Israel is "like" Nazi Germany. This is downright pathetic among Palestinian nationalists' supporters. Even when the Axis powers during World War II supported Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the father of Palestinian nationalism. He is idolized still today by the corrupt leaders of both Fatah and Hamas for which you are too ignorant to protest against for their own incompetence of allowing their own people to starve and suffer.

Don't come around me and accuse me of being a "Nazi".

11:23 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Ironically, it was Mohammad Amin al-Husayni's brother Kamil al-Husayni with reports from the old Ottoman files, that Kamil allowed Jews to settle in what would become Israel. Mohammad and Kamil's father Mohammed Tahir Mustafa Tahir al-Husayani opposed Jews from buying land, but didn't make any violent confrontations with them like what his son Mohammad Amin did.

So how could Jews steal land if they were allowed to buy it? As what some accuse Kamil of doing? Why have this unnecessary comparison between Israeli Jews and Nazis when Mohammad Amin supported the Nazis, and is still admired today by radical Palestinian nationalists?

11:29 AM  
Blogger Crampton said...

Trevor: you'll like the George Jonas column here.

Snippet below:
---
What news on the Rialto? Try a re-enactment of The Merchant of Venice.
Shylock, played by Israel, vacated Gaza in favour of Antonio, a.k.a. the
Palestinian Authority, for the surety of a pound of peace. To make room,
Israel dragged Jewish settlers kicking and screaming from the land. Instead
of peace, it got Hamas and its daily bombardment of rockets exploding among
the civilian population.


When Shylock confronted Antonio demanding to collect his pound of peace, the
Duke of Venice, going under the name of UN-EU these days, turned for advice
to Portia, masquerading as Nicolas Sarkozy, the President of France, leading
a delegation of EU dignitaries.


"Is the Jew entitled to his pound of peace from the death-merchant Hamas?"
the ducal UN-EU wanted to know.
"Well, it's a valid contract," Portia-as-Sarkozy replied. "Shylock is
entitled to collect his pound of peace."


"Oh, drat!" said the UN-EU "You sure? Double drat and boo!"


"Do not despair, though," Portia-Sarkozy continued. "We're not doctors of
law for nothing. Shylock can collect his pound of peace, but the contract
says nothing about blood. Sure, Israel is entitled to peace, but only if he
can get it without shedding any blood.


"If he does, he's a war criminal."


"Oh learned judge," said Hamas & Co., visibly relieved. "Oh, second Daniel!"


http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/01/07/george-jonas-letting-israel-s-muggers-have-their-way.aspx

11:59 AM  
Anonymous George said...

"Don't come around me and accuse me of being a "Nazi"."

I am accusing you of being a hypocryt not a Nazi. What is acceptable tactics for your ancestors, uncles, aunties, etc is not acceptable when it is used on your own people by another people Israel has backed into the same type of corner.

1:36 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"I am accusing you of being a hypocryt not a Nazi. What is acceptable tactics for your ancestors, uncles, aunties, etc is not acceptable when it is used on your own people by another people Israel has backed into the same type of corner."

So I guess Hamas using a U.N.-sponsored school to use it as a part of its scheme to fire into Israel is fine with you? How about Hamas, along with Fatah being joined with al-Qaeda in hoping to call for a "Day of Rage" against Jewish targets world wide?

You're telling me that Israel should leave in peace with these people without preconditions which include erasing parts of their charters which include destroying Israel?

If Hamas can come in by being democratically elected, shouldn't you at least agree it should reform itself into not having any armed factions firing into Israel? Isn't this what this current conflict here is about?!

1:52 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

Last time I checked with your revisionism George, Jews didn't liberally profess they hated all Germans, like how Hamas and Fatah are doing in their sick fashion of indoctrinating Palestinians while stealing aid that is suppose to go to them.

Neither did Jews ever promoted suicide bombings against German civilians, where it seems Hamas and Fatah are doing against Israeli civilians.

1:55 PM  
Anonymous George said...

Again you are trying to pick at the various differences other than the tactics that differentiate Hamas from the militant group that formed in Poland and carried out acts of terror for their liberation from concentrated forced ghettos.

If you want to bring in a scale, then yes Hamas has intent to do more damage in order to achieve its aims than the Jewish Military Union did, but you cannot call one act of aggression against civilians, terrorism, and another, acts of liberation without being a hypocrit.

"You're telling me that Israel should leave in peace with these people without preconditions which include erasing parts of their charters which include destroying Israel?"

No not at all. But what I am telling you is to get over this moral stance that allows Israel to take off all the gloves in chasing down Hamas fighters, which it is allowed to (chase down Hamas fighters) do but must obey the rules of war set out in the Geneva convention - because it deems the rocket attacks to be terrorist it has somehow given itself more licence to treat the normal people of Gaza with such disregard.

Israel needs to get over that 'terrorist' moral plain and get on with doing its business in there to disarm Hamas as it would any other armed insurgent group, and get out.

5:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rattling The Cage: Israel should get out of Gaza now - Larry Derfner

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167305710

9:48 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Israel needs to get over that 'terrorist' moral plain and get on with doing its business in there to disarm Hamas as it would any other armed insurgent group, and get out."

George, where the hell have you been since Hamas' founding, it was sending its followers in numbers as suicide bombers to Israel. It then began to be involved in firing rockets, after Israel handed control from Gaza back to the Palestinians.

But all Hamas leaders could do, instead of reforming themselves after coming into power, they only continue to agitate terrorism.

Stop with YOUR nitpicking, you apologist for Hamas terror. Because that's what I see people like you, a bunch of apologists for radical groups such as Hamas where you have failed to condemn them and instead accuse Israel of "pushing" genocide.

6:19 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

George,

If the Israeli government were really committing genocide against the Palestinians, there would have already been an Israeli flag flying over both Gaza and the West Bank by now.

Yet why have the Israelis restrain themselves from doing so? Why are they more interested in having peace and caving to international pressure then if they were so bent on committing genocide?

7:22 AM  
Anonymous George said...

"where you have failed to condemn them and instead accuse Israel of "pushing" genocide"

I look at the history of Hamas and the history of Israel, and say to you, 'he who has not sinned throw the first stone'.

I have not and am not accusing Israel of genocide, but you are accusing me of doing so.

I will say this again so you can get this into your thick skull, piss off with the moral high ground bullshit.

The founding of almost every state in the world has involved the use of tactics that targetted civilians as a means of attaining their independence.

It doesn't make it right, its just a fact of history. Israels turn was 60 years ago when it was planting bombs in civilian buildings and blowing them up in attacking the British suppression of their desire for a Jewish state, now they are copping the brunt of another people wanting their own state and independence.

Israel can do what it wants for all I care, they have the will, the arms and good enough reason to do so (stop the rockets, and depowering Hamas).

But I will not take moral sides in this war no matter how much you falsely accuse me, I'll leave that sort of pointless bullshit to the fanatics.

8:26 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"But I will not take moral sides in this war no matter how much you falsely accuse me, I'll leave that sort of pointless bullshit to the fanatics."

Oh, you mean how you like to accuse me of "promoting" and "favoring" how Palestinians end up to be involved in a "holocaust" by Israelis?

"It doesn't make it right, its just a fact of history. Israels turn was 60 years ago when it was planting bombs in civilian buildings and blowing them up in attacking the British suppression of their desire for a Jewish state, now they are copping the brunt of another people wanting their own state and independence."

Hello? I just given an example of how Hamas' charter calls for Israel's destruction, not for statehood of Palestine to be right next toward Israel. How does inciting riots around the world, and threatening to target Jews world wide going to help with something like that? Last time I checked, not even the radical armed Zionists groups did this to every British national.

"I have not and am not accusing Israel of genocide, but you are accusing me of doing so."

Er, yeah you did.

"The founding of almost every state in the world has involved the use of tactics that targetted civilians as a means of attaining their independence."

And how come the rest of the world never gone into their opposition but instead of support? Why is it that Israel is the only nation on Earth that can not defend its own people? I do not see people like you calling other people who did this to be wrong, just simply with Israel, and you justifying Palestinian terrorism.

9:17 AM  
Anonymous ramwatch said...

The steam has gone out of the RAM front, with co leader Oliver Woods publicly attacking the SWs for trying to manipulate the front for its own ends. The aging SW lost most of its young members over the issue to a more combative Socialist Aotearoa, which has recruited a new bunch of people around its leader Joe Carolan.

9:17 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

So George, you're too lazy to go back and look at your own words?

"In April and May of 1943 the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto were surrounded by barbed wire fences by the occupiers of Poland, and they faced a choice, in the words of a cry of Zapata, they could die on their knees or they could live forever.

They chose to rise up against their occupier, to use their bodies as weapons against their occupier, dig tunnels, to fight not to die, in ones and twos of hunger, but to die as free men and women.

Today, the Palestinian people in Gaza, are the new Warsaw ghetto, and those who are murdering them are the equivalent of those that murdered the Jews in 1943."

Isn't this what you have accused Israel of doing? Genocide? Yet you deny that to be as such?

9:19 AM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"I look at the history of Hamas and the history of Israel, and say to you, 'he who has not sinned throw the first stone'."

Your early comments exposes your contradiction with this statement.

9:24 AM  
Anonymous George said...

"Isn't this what you have accused Israel of doing? Genocide? Yet you deny that to be as such?"

I guess if you desparately wanted to you could take that from that example, but the point was to show the conditions that are the same as the conditions that existed before the Holocaust began.

The point was to show that Israel itself has been in this same position, despised by its occupiers, locked up in concentrated areas, forced to dig tunnels to get in weapons and food to defend and feed itself.

That Israelis themselves used acts of violence including assassinations, summary executions and bombings etc in the lead up to their own uprisings hence the he who has not sinned scripture.

The point was to show that every time you box a people in like that they will rise up and fight. It is inevitable.

And Israel of all people should know this because there are Israelis alive today that still remember those ghettos, and shame on them for recreating the same conditions for the Gazans.

Yet for some reason all you can see in what I have said, is something I was not saying. Why is that Mah, is your heart that hardened and are you that blinded in your rage against the people of Palestine that you cannot read the words on the page in front of you?

6:09 PM  
Blogger mah29001 said...

"Yet for some reason all you can see in what I have said, is something I was not saying. Why is that Mah, is your heart that hardened and are you that blinded in your rage against the people of Palestine that you cannot read the words on the page in front of you?"

Funny George, you're the one who happily has the hatred for the people of Israel to accuse me of something like that. Why should the Palestinians live under with Hamas or Fatah? Why are you not so blind that their total objective is the destruction of the Jewish state?

Tell me, how many Palestinian refugees which Israel's neighbors have taken care of? Tell me the number of refugees Iran has allowed to settle? Jordon? Egypt? Lebanon? Iraq? Egypt? Saudi Arabia?

You purposely accuse Israel of committing genocide, and then you accuse me of "being full of hate". That's a bunch of bull George, and you know it. I'm tired of being harassed by pro-Palestinian assfarts (pardon my language) that they get away with protesting to allow groups like Hamas to retain being in its militant form without changing its tone and reforming its charter to promote that Israel has the right to exist, and they would not fire missiles on Israeli cities, so that Israeli forces will just simply leave the Palestinians in piece.

How the f*ck is that hard to figure out?

2:15 PM  

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